Is there hope?

If I run out of options, where can I turn? Here are some passages that make me think there may be a safe place in this world where I can finally escape English Banditry without having to sacrifice having a decent standard of living and career:   


I've tried to avoid quoting anything that has no reference of whether or not the statement was even formed after a protracted stay in the target country. E.g. on one message board I found "Japanese are incapable of understanding a gaijin doesn't always need to be talked to as if they're five years old, they always have been and always will be." but the poster did not mention anything about having stayed more than a day in Japan, thus the statement has no value for this survey.


I thought you were in Nagoya - or am I confused? About three people have spoken English to me here in nine/ten months.

. . .

When I lived in Berlin many years ago, I spoke decent German and I would often have to insist for sometime before the other person would relent and stop trying to practice their English. On the other hand, there is a distinct breed of French person who positively revels in humphing that you still have a accent after soooo many years (based on a similar vanity, I believe, about the difficulty of the language, but far less warranted than that of the Japanese) even when you know from your mates and most transactions that you speak like a local, but they rarely insist on speaking English to you. To be fair most of them are delighted whenever anyone displays a passion for their fair tongue, and the other kind you just have to ignore.

http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb/showthread.php?t=17265&page=2
Japan +1; France +2; Germany -1 

 i mean for example in mexico if you can speak for a minute or two in broken spanish people are much more welcoming.

http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb/showthread.php?t=17265&page=2/a>
Mexico +1

Most of my normal acquaintances (i.e. non-work-related) speak little or even no English at all, including those just out of high school or college. And even among my professional translator colleagues, nearly all of whom have lived abroad, only one ever attempts to actually speak English. In other words, Japan's a great place to be immersed in another rich language.

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10380&PN=1&TPN=1

Japan +2

This is not a country full of Eigo Bandits. Everyone is quite willing to speak Japanese.

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10380&PN=1&TPN=2

Japan +1

I am too am a foreign English teacher. Here in GZ, I mostly teach at kindergartens. I have never come across the “Chinese Language Rapists” that you guys are all going on about. Usually I’ll get people trying to teach ME Chinese instead of forcing me to teach them English. The vast majority of my friends are Chinese, and they all respect the fact that I spend 5 to 6 days a week teaching young kids my native toungue. None of them have ever tried that freebie lesson thing. Nor has anyone else for that matter.

http://www.talktalkchina.com/index.php/2005/05/20/language-rapists/

China +2


Actual example: A friend of mine went to france, believing that with just english she would be able to do anything there. (well, actually the chinese “agency” who organised her transfer told her, that english is spoken anywhere at anytime in every lao wai country of this world…) 100.000 RMB and 1 week later she wrote emails, crying that she couldnt communicate in daily life and that everyone is speaking FRENCH to her! How impolite those french are!!

http://www.talktalkchina.com/index.php/2005/05/20/language-rapists/

France +3

The Japanese are not like that. It may be partly because the poor Japanese have a bit of a linguistic inferiority complex, but the Japanese usually seem relieved to be able to speak Japanese with a foreigner instead of having to use English. In Thailand I sure couldn’t speak much Thai, but the people were so friendly that I had a ball with my mangled phrasebook command of the language. And there are a lot of Thai people that speak good English. In my experience, Mexicans don’t feel the need to always bring it back to English either… and they know when you’re American.

http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2003/04/13/english-only-please-this-is-china

Japan +1; Thailand +1; Mexico +1

I had a very interesting convo with a Thai friend of mine. He was telling me about one of our co-workers, also a Thai. He originally approached him at work and tried to speak Thai with him. The other guy pretended not to understand Thai. My friend KNEW where he was from and that he DEFINATELY spoke Thai. But he still pretended that he could only speak (strong accented) English. My friend explained to me that Thais have a cultural inferiority complex and for the most part, view their language as economically worthless, therefore culturally worthless as well. So our co-worker was trying to gain face by pretending only to speak English.

(Please see the original thread which contains many more interesting anecdotes.)

http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2003/04/13/english-only-please-this-is-china

Thailand -1

If it comforts you, English speakers have the same problems in European countries. Even after many years in Germany, I still come across those who think they have a right to practice English with me once they discover I am British.

Never give an inch! It’s the only way some of these people will understand.

http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2003/04/13/english-only-please-this-is-china

Germany -1

I lived in Japan for a year, and I can’t recall ever having Japanese people ignore me when I spoke Japanese, and speaking English back.

However, I was living in Sapporo (a city of about 2 million people in the north of Japan), where there are very few foreigners, so it’s possible that they hadn’t ‘learned’ that foreigners don’t speak English. I was also wearing Japanese school uniform, which would have confused them more.

http://eflgeek.com/index.php/eflgeek/comments/stonewalled-when-speaking-korean/

Japan +1

My Korean skills are abominable, sadly, after so long here. It’s odd, but although I’ve heard this kind of story many times, it has never happened to me. When I speak Korean, people respond in Korean, just as they have in the half-dozen other countries in which I’ve spent any length of time and where English is not the first language.

*shrugs*

I think it’s more a matter of the body language and non-verbal negotiation that goes on before uttering speech than anything else, but that’s just me perhaps.

http://eflgeek.com/index.php/eflgeek/comments/stonewalled-when-speaking-korean/

Korea +1


My Spanish is generally excellent, albeit tinged with an Andalusian accent (according to Spaniards), but when I went to Mexico City a few years ago, I found myself almost prohibited from speaking it.

When I called a restaurant (recommended by a friend) to make reservations, I carried out the entire conversation in Spanish, and they didn’t suspect a thing. When my family and I showed up at the restaurant, though, the staff responded to everything I said in Spanish—in English. The same was true at the hotels I stayed in on the trip, as well as just about every other business I walked into.

http://eflgeek.com/index.php/eflgeek/comments/stonewalled-when-speaking-korean/

Mexico -1

Get together any group of embittered gaijin, and no doubt the conversation will soon turn to language beggars, those Japanese who approach you in the street just to practise English on you. However, the strange thing for me is that I have never once in about eight years have anyone approach me in a fashion that might resemble the stereotype we all know and hate.

http://shironchousa.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_archive.html

Japan +2

 I speak Japanese fairly well, but it still takes a fair amount of effort for me to explain some concepts related to my job. I'm finding more and more though that Japanese people who speak perfectly good English, in some cases better than my Japanese, just speak to me in Japanese and don't let on that they in fact speak good English, and I don't find this out until months later when I hear them speaking to someone else.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/message.jspa?messageID=12647134

Japan +1

Myexperience is Eastern Europe is the opposite - I speak reasonable Russian + Polish, and phrase bok level on a number of other Salv languages. Generally I have found locals to be patient with my stumbling attempts at their language, and generally appreciative that I made the effort.

This only changes when I go to major tourist draws. Eg in restaurants in Prague, waiting staff often speak fluent English and they just want to get the job done quickly; they have no interest in my improving my Czech. Same applies in Paris.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1389621&start=0&tstart=0

Eastern Europe +1

Same here but with Arabic in Egypt. If they don't speak much or any English they are usually delighted at any attempt to speak their language. Some who do fluently speak English like it too if you make the effort - after all you are in Egypt.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1389621&start=0&tstart=0

Egypt +1

I had the opposite experience in Argentina and Chile last year. People were very happy to let me speak Spanish, even once in a tourist information office when the girl realized my poor Spanish was worse than her poor English.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1389621&start=0&tstart=0

Argentina +1; Chile +1


If you get the chance maybe you could try travelling in Argentina. My experience there was similar to bjd (#12) - I found that when I travelled there, almost everyone responded to my (moderate at best) Spanish with Spanish, and I hardly spoke English at all. And I have found the same in many parts of Spain (but probably not the Costa del Sol).

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1389621&start=0&tstart=0

Argentina +1; Spain +1

Of course I have an accent. I am currently in Colombia, away from the gringo trail, and people are surprised that I can speak Spanish so well, although they do tell me I speak with a Brasilian accent and frequently ask me if I am from Brasil. Nobody here tries to speak to me in English.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1389621&start=0&tstart=0

Colombia +1

Agree with stormboy about the French. I remember being asked by a shopkeeper to make my kids' minds up which ice cream they would take from the freezer. My reply - nous choisons toujours - was met with a tirade about the importance of learning my conjugations properly. We could buy no ice cream until I had solemnly recited je choisis, ... nois choisissons ... It is his country and he can sell ice creams to who he wants, but I just can't imagine that situation arising in the UK. If someone speaks English well enough for me to understand, thats a good enough standard for me.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1389621&start=0&tstart=0

France +2

I don't really have too many problems with Eigo-bandits nor people addressing me in English here in Osaka. In Osaka I've never had anyone try to blatently practice their English on me. I occasionally have people make small friendly comments to me in English, but never an attempt at conversation. Although last week a pervy old dude approached my girlfriend and asked if he could practice his English on her, who she politely ingnored, but this was the first time that type of this has happened to either of us.

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=288363

Japan +1

Maximus:

 I know that if I were to become desirous of learning the likes of,
German, Dutch, the Scandanavian languages, Finnish acheiving immersion would be difficult as the people of those countries would just throw English at me on discovering that I am a foreigner. This is because their level of English seems to be quite high.

. . .

Good languages for that in my opinion seem to be the likes of Spanish (in most locations in Spain nobody seems to even care about English, what a positive!), I have heared that Japanese too is like this according to various areas of this forum.

DaraghM:

So far, I've found Spanish to have the greatest immersion potential. In Madrid, I found they rarely speak English, and it really pushed my Spanish. Barcelona wasn't as intense, and I got to pick up a small bit of Catalan. I was suprised in Ibiza, the town side of the island, how little English was spoken. ...

Spain +1; Spanish-speaking Countries +1


France is great for immersion in French. People are not eager to use any other language than French. They can be rude in the sense that they will correct your mistakes if you don't speak well, but that's actually an advantage because you can learn from your mistakes.

. . .

Finally, Germany is actually not a bad place for immersion, I have seen several people become fluent during one- or two-year stays. People usually prefer to speak German, eapecially if your German is good. For example, when I was in high school we had a young American teacher in English class, who stayed about a year in Germany. He frequently went to students' parties and I met him quite often, but I never heard him speak English outside of the classroom! I guess, in Germany it's really up to you if you want to speak English or not.

However, among the people who went to Norway or Sweden, NOBODY was fluent when they came back and most had abandoned all efforts to learn the language, because they just couldn't get people to talk to them in Norwegian or Swedish!

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10480&PN=1&TPN=2

France +1; Germany +1; Norway -1; Sweden -1

My friend who studied in the Czech Republic explained that in Prague, English speaking Czechs always molested him with English despite his efforts and despite his sufficient domination of their language. However, in any towns which weren't the capital, he was totally immersed. For that I wonder if it is the same in the other Slavic countries, especially Croatia.

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10480&PN=1&TPN=2

Prague -1; Czech Republic (minus-Prague) +1

...but the French take the opposite attitude of the Japanese. Although they know that theur language is ver difficult (esp. for beginners, who can't even hope having an easy sentence right), they expect foreigners in France to at least try to learn it.

It usually goes so far that even when they can speak English or another language in which they are addressed, they often pretend not to undestand or just answer in French. In fact, the French usually do more efforts to learn the basics of the local language (and culture) of the country they are visiting (especially in places where the locals aren't supposed to know French) than many other people, and they expect people visiting France to do the same, wherever they come from, and no matter how long they stay. That's why they will address any foreigner in French. If the foreigner cannot understand most Frencg will prefer speaking more slowly, or using simpler words, rather than switching to another language that they can speak.

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14915

France +1

The other day I saw a TV programme about the Korean community in Japan. Those Koreans have lived all or most of their lives in Japan, and speak perfect Japanese. But when the Japanese TV interviewer came with the camera into the Korean shop in Tokyo, the first thing they said upon hearing "konnichiwa" from the Korean shopowner, was "oooh, nihongo jouzu desu ne !" (or you Japanese is so good). ...

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14915&page=2

Japan -1

...
BTW I work at a hotel in deepest Shirahama in Wakayama and without exception ALL the hotel staff speak to me in Japanese as they know I speak the language. It all depends on where you are in Japan I think. Ive never had a problem with Eigo Bandits except at the odd bar.

...

http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb/showthread.php?p=713774

Japan +1

...

By the way, I would think this "free lesson" stuff is exagerated, or limited to specific area (Roppongi?). While in Japan (been living there for more than 3 years), nobody asked me for a free lesson (although I am white and potentially a native English speaker). None of my English speaking expat friends had the issue.

...

http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21026&page=8

Japan +1